Author Topic: Socialism  (Read 1553 times)

Offline kNova

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Socialism
« on: March 10, 2008, 05:12:16 PM »
As you guys might know, Socialism is the form of government in which, by principle, all people are equal, therefore, goods and services are rationed out equally among the people. The common people are often given the title of proletarian in socialistic and communistic government, this is the name I will use to refer to them in this topic.

Also, I suggest that before you read this topic, you read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

But honestly, the basic socialism facts you must get is..
  • Food and other supplies are rationed evenly across the nation.
  • There is differentiation in social structure. The administrative positions are more revered than the coal mine workers, but they are all still viewed as valued members of the nation. They all still receive equal rations.
  • The government decides what to do with lands, goods, human resources and rations.
  • By default, all property in the nation is owned by every member of such nation.

Honestly, the theory of socialism is a solid one, everyone, no matter what their talents or position in society is equal. This should remove things such as poverty, starvation, and degradation due to social rank. However, although socialism is an excellent theory, it seems to fail in practice, time and time again. Why?

Well, lets look at previous socialistic governments.
  • First of all, they all used militaristic force to enforce their will.
  • Second of all, often times, administrative members of the party were favored when it came to rations.
  • There were no means of self-improvement, or improving family life.
  • There were other countries to compete with.
  • The governments often time were being ran inefficiently.

1. Now look at Soviet Russia, one of the most famous communistic governments, which is a form of socialism. They used the military to enforce their will freely, killing people who were against the government or those who tried to cheat the rationing system. That is unacceptable. Military violence leads to turmoil, turmoil leads to revolutions, the leaders of the Soviet Government were too stupid to see this. Also, in using the military to enforce the governments will, that uses precious resources which could be located otherwise. Metal used to make guns could make machines, soldiers could become workers, gunpowder can be used to blast new mines. Military rule is very inefficient.

2. Yet again, lets use Russia as an example. Often times, revolutionary leaders were favored when it comes to rations. When the proletarians see this, they wonder, 'You guys promise us equal rations, equal rights, yet here you are, taking twice our share!'
Such thoughts lead to revolution.

3. People want to improve their lives, unfortunately, strict socialism provides no means for that, except maybe working harder for an easier job, or a more respected job. Food must be rationed evenly, there is no doubt in that. Same with all other necessities. However, maybe things like housing, chocolate, those rare treats could be offered as perks for those members of the nation who strive to improve both their lives and the nation wide standard of living.

4. Unfortunately, in order for Socialism to work perfectly, competition must be removed pre-reform. It costs far too much to keep a military running efficiently. Each soldier requires pay and rations, (or actually, usually they are paid in rations.) Also, they need uniforms, weaponry, training, funeral costs, everything. Military upkeep is far too much of a burden for a young Socialistic government. Also, each soldier is another person who could be working.

5. The fifth problem is quite simply how the governments were ran overall, it was all so inefficient.

Well, I don't feel like typing too much more. Personally, I believe a world-wide socialistic government would be ideal, but only with some severe modifications. Right now, it's only a good theory, and unfortunately, each time this theory comes to reality, it fails horribly.

Discuss.
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Offline dorino

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 06:02:49 PM »
Socialism in itself is a perfect idea that, when applied to democratic electorial structures, [s:2dgjwz6j]would make me cum[/s:2dgjwz6j] would be a great government.

Oh and communism is the worst mutation of socialist values ever

Offline kNova

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 06:15:20 PM »
Yah, communism turned out horribly, although I've never studied enough to fully understand the differences between the two.

Have you ever read the book Nineteen Eighty-two?
Basically, there are three sections of government. The proletarians, the Inner Party, and the Outer Party. The proletarians will always be proletarians, no chance to increase their living standards. However, whether or not you are an Inner or Outer party member, depends upon  your intelligence level and the discipline which you show as a child. The brighter, more disciplined children join the more selective Inner Party, everyone else is Outer Party. Which is honestly a pretty good idea.
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Offline Psuedo

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 08:24:31 PM »
Quote from: "Nova"
Yah, communism turned out horribly, although I've never studied enough to fully understand the differences between the two.

Have you ever read the book Nineteen Eighty-two?
Basically, there are three sections of government. The proletarians, the Inner Party, and the Outer Party. The proletarians will always be proletarians, no chance to increase their living standards. However, whether or not you are an Inner or Outer party member, depends upon  your intelligence level and the discipline which you show as a child. The brighter, more disciplined children join the more selective Inner Party, everyone else is Outer Party. Which is honestly a pretty good idea.
1984
... which is supposed to portray a "negative utopia." Most people live miserable lives without even realizing life can be better.

Offline kNova

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 10:51:45 PM »
Quote from: "Mad Scienstien"
Quote from: "Nova"
Yah, communism turned out horribly, although I've never studied enough to fully understand the differences between the two.

Have you ever read the book Nineteen Eighty-two?
Basically, there are three sections of government. The proletarians, the Inner Party, and the Outer Party. The proletarians will always be proletarians, no chance to increase their living standards. However, whether or not you are an Inner or Outer party member, depends upon  your intelligence level and the discipline which you show as a child. The brighter, more disciplined children join the more selective Inner Party, everyone else is Outer Party. Which is honestly a pretty good idea.
1984
... which is supposed to portray a "negative utopia." Most people live miserable lives without even realizing life can be better.

The overall concept of government in 1984 is wonderful, just the leaders are corrupt, which would have to be fixed. There are solutions to the problems in socialism, they just need to be found. Also, the Inner Party didn't allow for free thought, people should be allowed to think, thought brings around revolution, revolution keeps the higher-ups in check.
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Offline MC Jimmy

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2008, 12:04:25 AM »
Oshi, funnily enough this is what we have been talking about in my global studies class lately.

Offline soulbreather

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 03:29:26 AM »
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
Oshi, funnily enough this is what we have been talking about in my global studies class lately.
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Offline kNova

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 08:39:06 AM »
Actually, me and the rest of the Academic Team / Scholastic Bowl team have been talking about how we would arrange a new world order, and we decided it would definetly be socialism, with a few major changes.
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Offline Yoshi Skier

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 11:41:47 AM »
On paper it's a great idea. I mean, who's against the removal of poverty and everyone being equal? But it's just not feasable; would you feel comfortable if your government was in control of every aspect of life? If the government officials in charge were perfect, this idea may work out. But we all know that's never the case.
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Offline soulbreather

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 04:12:22 AM »
I am like, so the father Gapon in this debate.
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