72dpiarmy

Projects => Super Mario War => Topic started by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 01:58:32 AM

Title: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 01:58:32 AM
Before anyone says anything:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26 (http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7734&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=netplay (http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7734&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=netplay)

If you dont want to click then:

Q: Can I play this game online?

A: Not yet, although this is the number one request as of now. If you can actually help with getting netplay off the ground, by all means, let us know!



That out of the way, I think a general (maybe sticky) thread for this should be made. Just talking about possibilities, what you would do with Netplay, etc.



Just to pitch in a idea, although its problably been studied a million times: Implanting a free open source Kaillera alternative. The question is how/which.
A quick search turned this up: http://kaillera.movsq.net/ (http://kaillera.movsq.net/) but Id pretty much bet you already knew about this or or know other betters.
The basic idea would be to find someone who is willing to write up a network lib such as the one created for Multi Theft Auto.  Maybe we should try posting on all known tech forums and see if someone comes up.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: DarkAndroid on July 30, 2008, 04:28:18 AM
...
wow...thats amazing.
someone asking for netplay and DOING something about it.
thats only happened like once, twice max
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: "DarkAndroid"
...
wow...thats amazing.
someone asking for netplay and DOING something about it.
thats only happened like once, twice max

Well Ive been around here some time already to know how SMW has developed :P and the "no netplay" topic.
It would be nice if the devs also go in on this general discussion to see what possibilities they've already studied.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on July 30, 2008, 12:13:57 PM
We should try contacting nmn (http://http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1103) somehow, to help do what he was doing again.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
We should try contacting nmn (http://http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1103) somehow, to help do what he was doing again.
Thats gonna be nearly impossible seeing as he hasnt come on her in a YEAR; His intrests have problably shifted to something else.

Is there any way the current team can build from that source code and continue? I imagine like I said the main problem is that the team has no network/developer.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 12:30:00 PM
I didnt expect this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nmn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nmn)

He made his own Wikipedia page :) This is about 99.9% sure that this is him, seeing as his hobbies. Maybe we can contact him thru there.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on July 30, 2008, 12:30:08 PM
Well staff can see his E-Mail, so if he still uses that email, we still have a chance at contacting him.

Edit: Oh fiddle sticks, thats awesome about the wiki...
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
Well staff can see his E-Mail, so if he still uses that email, we still have a chance at contacting him.

He may not have the same email; That would be the problem.

That wiki was made in mid-July and today is the last day of July so...Its pretty recentish.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 12:40:30 PM
I left him a message on the discussion page....Maybe he'll reply.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: SsF on July 30, 2008, 12:42:33 PM
well there is no loss in trying to get hold of him.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on July 30, 2008, 12:47:09 PM
I wish I had the power to sticky this thread.

*looks at the higher up mods, and admins to do it*
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
I wish I had the power to sticky this thread.

*looks at the higher up mods, and admins to do it*

I hope the admins see the cause in this thread and just not some lame n00b attempt to ask for Netplay and sticky it.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Agastya on July 30, 2008, 01:11:35 PM
I really don't know if it's that sticky-worthy though.. even though I played with the idea a bit.

.. eh, what the hell, why not.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 30, 2008, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: "LKA"
I really don't know if it's that sticky-worthy though.. even though I played with the idea a bit.

.. eh, what the hell, why not.

Thanks :) All Netplay discussion can now go in here.

Lets hope the devs post something in this thread stating possibilities that they've tried and/or studied.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 31, 2008, 08:57:31 PM
Would it be possible to create a P2P kinda network or would this cause syncing issues?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on July 31, 2008, 09:00:38 PM
This would still depend on the user's internet...
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Zadrave on August 01, 2008, 11:46:32 AM
I like the idea using kaillera for this kind of thing. Also, if you have read through the site, it also says you can't have more than 3 players yet... Oddly... Because I have played smash with 3 people alot. It also uses P2P which is a good thing... I hope this happens soon!  :D
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Agastya on August 01, 2008, 02:43:40 PM
P2P is a direct connection between two people that doesn't allow more than two people, the client and the host.

Regular kai allows as many people as can connect, but has more frame delay.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MrMister on August 02, 2008, 02:05:39 AM
Sucks cuz no lag compensation. :|
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mariokirbyssb on August 02, 2008, 02:56:08 PM
i wish kai wouldnt lag. as it said. so then like twenty people could verse. and  it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on August 11, 2008, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: "LKA"
P2P is a direct connection between two people that doesn't allow more than two people, the client and the host.

Regular kai allows as many people as can connect, but has more frame delay.

Well not necessarily:

A pure P2P network does not have the notion of clients or servers but only equal peer nodes that simultaneously function as both "clients" and "servers" to the other nodes on the network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer-to-peer)

So it does support more than one.




That being said I have GREAT news. Be prepared:


Quote
Hey nmn

You were doing great progress on the Super Mario War scene with Netplay. Is there a reason you decided not to continue? More important stuff in your personal life? Other projects? A natural event that affected you? We really need you to give us some ideas or at least a reason why you wouldnt like to continue with this. Thank you very much.


Hello. Why did I quit? Honestly, Other projects started popping up that i had no choice but to work on. I no longer have to work on them though so i may come back - i'm just a little busy. I could probably do better netplay now though. Nmn (talk) 02:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nmn"



This is great news and I hope he comes back soon :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on August 11, 2008, 04:39:10 PM
That's pretty sweet.
He may have help from a certain un-named person with his netplay. [not me] but talking about someone else.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on August 11, 2008, 04:51:23 PM
That being said, I think we actually need to show that we care about this feature and not act like n00bs that just [s:2t4asy57]say[/s:2t4asy57] demand Netplay like "we wantz netplai!!!11111".

We need to show that we care about this feature.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on August 11, 2008, 04:55:55 PM
Yea, in the last thread nmn made, it seemed so much like people were being complete a$$3s to him.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on August 12, 2008, 04:45:57 PM
Hey guys.
I got your message on Wikipedia. Sorry for leaving - I really should've done something better, but i didn't have the time. Anyways, This morning i checked out the latest SVN and began work on a new netplay mod. It should be less hacky and more accurate - I'm also a much better programmer than i was when i first tried this.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: eeliottheking on August 12, 2008, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: "nmn"
Hey guys.
I got your message on Wikipedia. Sorry for leaving - I really should've done something better, but i didn't have the time. Anyways, This morning i checked out the latest SVN and began work on a new netplay mod. It should be less hacky and more accurate - I'm also a much better programmer than i was when i first tried this.
oh god i love you
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on August 12, 2008, 04:54:18 PM
Hurray!!!! You are back!!!! I love you as much as a guy can love another guy without being considered gay!!!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on August 12, 2008, 05:11:27 PM
Thanks all.

Any programmers around? I don't throughly understand the menu system, but i managed to get my custom menu showing up and an item in the main menu to access it.

Code: [Select]
	miNetplayMessage1 = new MI_Text("Please select the Netplay Mode", 320, 5, 0, 2, 1);
miNetplayMessage2 = new MI_Text("Join: Enter an existing game", 320, 25, 0, 1, 1);
miNetplayMessage3 = new MI_Text("Host: Create a new game", 320, 40, 0, 1, 1);

miNetplayJoin = new MI_Button(&spr_selectfield, 120, 386, "Join", 200, 0);
miNetplayHost = new MI_Button(&spr_selectfield, 310, 386, "Host", 200, 0);
miNetplayCancel = new MI_Button(&spr_selectfield, 220, 416, "Cancel", 200, 0);

mNetMenu.AddNonControl(miNetplayMessage1);
mNetMenu.AddNonControl(miNetplayMessage2);
mNetMenu.AddNonControl(miNetplayMessage3);
mNetMenu.AddControl(miNetplayJoin  , miNetplayCancel, miNetplayCancel, miNetplayHost, miNetplayHost);
mNetMenu.AddControl(miNetplayHost  , miNetplayCancel, miNetplayCancel, miNetplayJoin, miNetplayJoin);
mNetMenu.AddControl(miNetplayCancel, miNetplayCancel, miNetplayCancel, miNetplayJoin, miNetplayJoin);
mTeamSelectMenu.SetHeadControl(miNetplayCancel);
mTeamSelectMenu.SetCancelCode(MENU_CODE_TO_MAIN_MENU);

When i move around to the neighbors, it crashes. I should give a backtrace, but i'll edit that in.

Current status: Existing netplay code is setup as optional with an option to enable it. Fixed some warnings and possibly bad code in net.cpp for converting values to and from byte arrays. net_close and net_init codes are now uncommented but ifdef'd to only compile with netplay.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: DarkAndroid on August 12, 2008, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy and Darkandroid"
Hurray!!!! You are back!!!! I love you as much as a guy can love another guy without being considered faaahhhbulous!!!
thank you so much
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: home32 on August 13, 2008, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: "nmn"
Hey guys.
I got your message on Wikipedia. Sorry for leaving - I really should've done something better, but i didn't have the time. Anyways, This morning i checked out the latest SVN and began work on a new netplay mod. It should be less hacky and more accurate - I'm also a much better programmer than i was when i first tried this.
May I offer my blood as a token of gratitude? Oh, Great Holy One. :shock:
*Ow that hurts**OW! F**k* Here you go.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on August 13, 2008, 02:43:56 AM
lol
Thanks for the positive reinforcements people, but do keep in mind that net play is a rather small part of the program. I certainly don't feel i deserve more praise than the core developers. I personally don't mind but I sure don't want to take the spotlight off of people who've worked harder.

And scratch that message earlier - i have my menu working and i'll be working further on the netplay itself.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on August 13, 2008, 02:57:16 AM
Don't worry. :P Once it's all said and done, everyone will be total a$$fases and not really care whatcha did. I bet most don't even appreciate what Two52 does. But I sure do. He has to single handedly work since Florian does not help with SMWar anymore. You will still have a few fans like me out there. :o
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Yoshi Skier on August 13, 2008, 09:33:30 AM
If anything, it'll stop all the people asking for online play, which can get rather annoying at times. This is something 72dpiers have been dreaming about for a while, but it has never been made a reality before now. Me, along with many other people, will find this a great addition to the game. Don't cut yourself short - this is pretty big, and if you get this off the ground, you deserve all the credit in the world.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: DarkAndroid on August 13, 2008, 10:02:51 AM
yeah NP is a big thing
so when NP does take off, you will become a smwar god!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: KoolKojoS on August 16, 2008, 09:56:15 PM
Okay, I'm not asking for netplay like most new members, I'm suggesting a method of netplay.

Some of you may or may not know, there is a fan game called "Mario Brawl Online"
(LINK~ http://http://www.mbo-center.ovh.org/index.php?static=1&PHPSESSID=0b8a8a23036dddaec642ac9e81eeacf1)

This game uses a system called Hamiachi to connect people in a sort of emulated LAN area or something of that nature.

Mabey the people of Super Mario War can like talk with the creator of this game so they can too learn how to use hamiachi and connect SMW players!!!

Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on August 17, 2008, 11:17:03 AM
Quote from: "KoolKojoS"
Some of you may or may not know, there is a fan game called "Mario Brawl Online"
(LINK~ http://http://www.mbo-center.ovh.org/index.php?static=1&PHPSESSID=0b8a8a23036dddaec642ac9e81eeacf1)

This game uses a system called Hamiachi to connect people in a sort of emulated LAN area or something of that nature.

Mabey the people of Super Mario War can like talk with the creator of this game so they can too learn how to use hamiachi and connect SMW players!!!

Any other suggestions?

I'm actually working on a normal Netplay system, But Hamachi can help. To be able to have an open list of servers running, we either need a master server or a LAN network - Hamachi provides a LAN network for free, so this idea actually works pretty well if all players use it.

However, I'd rather just have a master server system since Hamachi doesn't work on all platforms SMW does. (Namely handhelds, and it's hard to get working on Linux, I think there's an OS X version though)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: KoolKojoS on August 17, 2008, 01:48:04 PM
I'm glad I could finnaly help in some way! >:D
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on August 17, 2008, 02:17:12 PM
Welcome back nmn. Thank you very much again for replying to my message left for you on the wikipedia page. Thanks :)

I have a question: You say that the method you are using is a "master server system"; Will this be a remote server system or will a player have to make a host server such as Quake 3?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on August 17, 2008, 03:13:28 PM
Quote from: "riahc3"
Welcome back nmn. Thank you very much again for replying to my message left for you on the wikipedia page. Thanks :)
No problem.

Quote from: "riahc3"
I have a question: You say that the method you are using is a "master server system"; Will this be a remote server system or will a player have to make a host server such as Quake 3?

The master server will do exactly as it does in Quake 3 - it holds the addresses to servers that are currently running.
Because this does require a server to be running, I may have to drop it or just leave it off default in favor of Hamachi, unless I can get my old box running cool enough to stay on all day. (Or if we could use a PHP based masterserver, which is probably possible with some HTTP magic so as long as we can figure a way to drop off dead servers after a while. Perhaps they could periodically ping the master to let it know it's still alive.)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Linkfox on August 27, 2008, 10:26:17 AM
This is the best news I've heard since I came back today.
When netplay comes around, I'm definitely downloading it.

You, sir, are about to kill 99.9% of germs...no, no wait, that's Lysol.
Ok, where was i? Oh, yes...You are about to make plenty of SMWarriors' (SMWar players) dreams come true!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Luigi on October 16, 2008, 05:38:37 PM
So... Um... It ended up on dreaming only? Still nothing done? Well... Nothing surprising

Btw. It would be nice to see netplay for SMW, but I'm afraid it would be "tourneyfaged" and we can play with NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION! Because other levels are UNFAIR AND UNBALANCED as they have UNFAIR DEFENSIVE POSITIONS! Z0MG!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on October 17, 2008, 08:44:09 PM
Heh, well, I'm still SORTA working on it, but because of school and things other people are bothering me about I've gotten very little chance to work on it.

It should be farther than it is right now, but my dev box went down in a strange crash and i can't find how to recover my SMW work files - Getting a logical Ext2 drive to work on windows is nearly impossible, even just to get files, and now that i finally found a reliable way, it still doesn't work because my entire home folder is showing up Empty.

So I'm sorry for the false hope, I suppose. I was working on it quite well for a bit, up till my crash. I'll let you know if i recover my working files or find another solution.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on October 18, 2008, 12:49:26 AM
If only we could help you out...
If coding was as simple as building a house. Netplay wouldnt be an issue :C
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Pikadude No. 1 on October 18, 2008, 07:22:32 PM
You think building a house is simple?? Isn't there all these building codes you have to follow and structural stability to worry about and all that stuff??
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on October 19, 2008, 09:32:43 PM
Arent We Little Miss Clever Remark? :P

If The Omish Can Do it, Anyone Can.
You just Have to have a little Will Power, And the Ability not to Be A Silly Pumpkin with Balance/Structural Issues

Which Means Making the Base Secure By Either Making It Bigger THen The Top and/or Giving it Fondation in Cement or in ground thats not going to get hard.

As For Codes....
You know what I meant...
But If you dont...
You Could Probably Build a little Shack right now.
With a few extra hands, you could make a shack at a larger scale ("House")
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Link901 on October 19, 2008, 10:20:53 PM
Seriously... how did this end up in you two talking about structural issues and such?  If you two want to talk all "Better Homes and Gardens", do it through PMs, not here.  It's straying offtopic like this that causes threads that are actually useful to get locked.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: JJames19119 on October 19, 2008, 10:29:06 PM
For the record, they aren't really all that off topic since they're comparing building houses to coding and coding netplay is a very, very tiring practice, from experience.

Seriously Link, you're role reversing with me. Maybe you should learn to chill more often? :V
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Pikadude No. 1 on October 19, 2008, 11:12:57 PM
/me acts blissfully ignorant of whatever Link and JJ said

Houses are much more complex than shacks and have to have electricity and plumbing and whatnot, just as a Netplay mod would have to keep all players in sync and whatnot. Whether something is difficult depends entirely on the complexity of the task at hand and the experience one has in completing tasks of that nature; it makes no difference whether we are talking of construction or coding. You could write a "Hello, World" program just as easily as I could build a shack.

That said, we need more than one person experienced with Netplay-ish stuff over here; the problems with having only one such person are clearly evident. Mayhaps we could go find all the open-source Netplay games on the Internet and find out which ones have devs that aren't too busy. I know Battle for Wesnoth has Netplay, but that's a turn-based game; the devs' experience there might not be so helpful with an intense action game like SMW.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on October 20, 2008, 12:38:46 AM
Quote from: "Pikadude No. 1"
/me acts blissfully ignorant of whatever Link and JJ said

Houses are much more complex than shacks and have to have electricity and plumbing and whatnot, just as a Netplay mod would have to keep all players in sync and whatnot. Whether something is difficult depends entirely on the complexity of the task at hand and the experience one has in completing tasks of that nature; it makes no difference whether we are talking of construction or coding. You could write a "Hello, World" program just as easily as I could build a shack.

That said, we need more than one person experienced with Netplay-ish stuff over here; the problems with having only one such person are clearly evident. Mayhaps we could go find all the open-source Netplay games on the Internet and find out which ones have devs that aren't too busy. I know Battle for Wesnoth has Netplay, but that's a turn-based game; the devs' experience there might not be so helpful with an intense action game like SMW.

Your a bastard! lulz
Buts its the truth. Houses Do have more COmplex things then I was thinking about.

Except from My experience, Hello world was more difficult then shack building... Just Because I didnt quite understand Everything I was even writing... Just sort of writing things and hoping for the best.

Either Way.... I totally Agree..

SOmeone Else Working on a game to feature Netplay (http://http://www.sakirsoft.com/cms/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1)
http://http://netpanzer.berlios.de/download.html
http://http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_net/
http://http://www.planeshift.it/about.html

The First is also Someone That is Seeking to Have Netplay in his Game.
The Thing is though, It hasnt been updated in a bit.
However, Mugen/ShegunDo is still an interesting Project, And I question if you want to get involved/COmbine Publicity with them.

The Second is some RTS game thats open source, and features Netplay
Third is apparently a relatively famous SDL open source net App
Forth is A MMORPG that is Open source and has a server set up.

Where should we go from here?
SHould we start inspecting it and Try and pick it apart?
Or Leave it to the big dogs?
are they still around?
Can they Do this?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Morph on November 08, 2008, 02:43:38 AM
From my understanding, the previous attempts with SDL_net worked (sort of), but couldn't get the program to communicate correctly. Even if this were repaired, the very nature of Super Mario War will make the game very bandwidth constrained. Any working initial release would be immeasurably laggy (no matter the connection) because of the raw packet throughput (early builds tend to send more packets of less data) which, over UDP, can cause some serious troubles for real-time games like Super Mario War.

This is much less prevalent in turn based scenarios, since they can usually get away with TCP transmissions, which check for packet inconsistencies, and will retransmit if there is an error.

Don't expect (real) netplay anytime soon. Even if something crops up in the short run, I assure you it will take some time before it's fun to play over the net. Have patience.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on November 29, 2008, 01:24:08 PM
See,
If they Checked Location every 30 milliseconds, I can Understand
WHat I don't understand is why not Just Check Location Everytime a persons Releases and Presses a button.
-And for eachcomputer they will add the X/y automatically instead of basing it off the internet.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Psuedo on December 03, 2008, 11:58:38 PM
Well, in the past I've tried to avoid the subject of netplay due to the fact that I thought bringing netplay to Super Mario War would mean that there would be very little of anything else in the release, and I'm still sure that'll happen. But at this point I thing we don't have much choice. As I said in this (http://http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9751) thread, Super Mario War's isn't getting the attention it got back in the days of 1.6 and early 1.7. Most people, including myself, have lost interest in it. And the reason why is undoubtably it's lack of netplay. Not only is netplay much more of a standard feature in games now than it was in 2006, but it's obvious the game's AI can't keep up with the advances made since 1.6. It's not only the highest demand from 72dpi but just about the ONLY demand from everyone else.

My point is this: Installing netplay will be tedious and time consuming, but the rewards will be far greater than anything items and gameplay modifications can give, which is why I think that when work on 1.9 begins, the developers are going to have to put the things that they've added in the past aside and focus mainly, if not entirely, on netplay.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Morph on December 04, 2008, 07:44:31 PM
Try pouring over the code yourself before you go preaching about the necessity of netplay. It isn't a pretty sight, and I gave up after a week.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Psuedo on December 07, 2008, 12:33:15 AM
Quote from: "Morph"
Try pouring over the code yourself before you go preaching about the necessity of netplay. It isn't a pretty sight, and I gave up after a week.
Well if you want this game to be ignored that's fine by me.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on December 07, 2008, 02:49:36 AM
Quote from: "Morph"
Try pouring over the code yourself before you go preaching about the necessity of netplay. It isn't a pretty sight, and I gave up after a week.

I mean... the important part is that people actually care about the game...
If we just waltz around thinking everything was going to be fine... We could be dead wrong...

When looking at Megatrends, popular demand and in general Honest to goodness fun.
THats when ideas can be developed.....

Likewise... If we just stop caring that there is no net play
-A bunch of disheartened developers might become too disheartened to continue developing...
And when that happens, dreams are crushed and Villages get pillaged....
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Daedre on December 25, 2008, 08:48:27 AM
I remember a while ago I used to play flash games with a mate of mine using a 3rd party program, which allowed us to basically look at the screen of the other person and control keyboard functions.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: EmThree on December 26, 2008, 09:56:51 PM
If Netplay comes out, SMW will get some serious praise.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on December 27, 2008, 12:30:22 AM
Heres SOme Psuedo Code to Possibly speed up the process

We need for this
1) Database able to be edited by multiple computers through the net
2) A server to Hold this Database-
3) A Way for people to tell the database what to edit


Database Structure

Potential Games

Potential Game DIsplay
-Display "String 1" = Player Name
-Display "String 2" = # players in Game X
-Display "String 3" = Ping

If a Player Leaves or enters a potential Game
-Send Database "Update" Trigger
--Set Variable Array X = Number of Players in Game X

Every Second
-Get Ping



Potential Game Lobby
User Stat display
-Load Document=Online Stats
-Display "String 1"=Line 1 (Names
-Display "String 2"=Ping
-Display "String 3"=Line 2 (# Games PLayed)
-Display "String 4"=Line 3 (# games Left)

Every second
-Get ping
--Set "String 2" = Ping



In session Games

Set host to "Database"
-With 4 players that each have 6 buttons each, (x,y) and item status making 9 stats
-36 Things that will have to be updated
-4 are just names and strings that detect which array number to change
-Each of these will not be updated every x milliseconds, but rather does so when it does so.
--I would even say, get everyone on a similar "Millisecond" That makes up for lag. So everything has to go by the beat. And set the CLock somehow to the music so people can always know that they can depend on the beat


Player
-If Player Presses Up
--Set Up = 1
-If Player Releases Up
--Set Up = 0
-If player pressed down
--Set Down = 1
-If player Releases Down
--Set Down = 0

Make it act like each player is in one anothers games
-Making sure the Correct Shorthop/Long hop is a necessity
--Since I doubt most games will have 400 millisecond pings, You can have the Long hop as specified as a person holding the Jump button for longer then .5 seconds or how long it takes to hit peak of short hop.

-Get (X, y) if player Releases or presses a button
-Get (X, Y) if Player Hit interacts with an object (I'm talking about an item, lava, Carryable block or hits an item Block)

Yeah..... I don't know how to make it easier then this
-The most important is Database to Person interaction
--And Loading people onto eachothers "Databases"
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Pikadude No. 1 on December 27, 2008, 01:49:26 AM
Why hold games on the server? Might be better for games to take place over peer-to-peer connections, with the server existing only to tell what peers are out there to connect to (i. e. who else is looking for a game). Eliminate the middleman. I think SSB Brawl may be doing something like that.

'Course, this talk will do no good unless we have someone here who actually knows how to get games to talk to each other over over the 'Net (or will learn how to do it).
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Chiisu on December 27, 2008, 02:37:14 PM
I think we could do Netplay the way SRB2 does it:

It has a master server that the game connects to to get netgame information. It also acts as a connection for players to get into already hosted netgames. SRB2 also has it set up to where the player can connect/host through IP addresses and make their games not appear on the master server- useful if you want to host a private netgame. The flaw in doing this is that some people would have to alter their ports. Of course, the remedy is hamachi.

For those who don't know, Hamachi creates virtual networks. People connected to the same virtual networks can use their Hamachi IPs to connect to games. This is the only known remedy (to me) to subborn firewalls and other things.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on December 27, 2008, 03:17:22 PM
Quote from: "Pikadude No. 1"
Why hold games on the server? Might be better for games to take place over peer-to-peer connections, with the server existing only to tell what peers are out there to connect to (i. e. who else is looking for a game). Eliminate the middleman. I think SSB Brawl may be doing something like that.

'Course, this talk will do no good unless we have someone here who actually knows how to get games to talk to each other over over the 'Net (or will learn how to do it).

There still needs to be a third party server to connect the players togethor
-THough yes, as I said, one player should run the database.

But there still needs to be a middle man to connect everyone togethor

This talk is still something worth doing, if any of plan to try to do it ourselves
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Chiisu on December 28, 2008, 03:25:15 PM
Here's how I see it:

We have five people- P1, P2, P3, P4, and Server.

P1 hosts a game.

P1 sets his game up to be connected to Server, and therefore be public.

P2, P3, and P4 all see P1's game and join.

P1-4 play a deathmatch game.

P1 stops hosting due to P3 being a noob, and sends messages to P2 and P4 to join his private name directly through an ICP/TCP connection with his IP adress.

P2 and P4 join, and the death match continues.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Raichu on January 14, 2009, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: "Chiisu"
Here's how I see it:

We have five people- P1, P2, P3, P4, and Server.

P1 hosts a game.

P1 sets his game up to be connected to Server, and therefore be public.

P2, P3, and P4 all see P1's game and join.

P1-4 play a deathmatch game.

P1 stops hosting due to P3 being a noob, and sends messages to P2 and P4 to join his private name directly through an ICP/TCP connection with his IP adress.

P2 and P4 join, and the death match continues.

I agree.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: CaptainEagle on January 14, 2009, 08:51:01 PM
Netplay Features:

Chatting before and after matches.

Maps chosen via a vote roulette(similar to mario kart)

Admins can kick/ban.




One possible idea is for the creator to allow lan but not Netplay, then everyone joins using hamachi.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on April 05, 2009, 01:00:49 AM
inb4 I disappeared AGAIN.

Sorry guys, I kept getting overly busy and screwing around way too much kept losing all of my code... I'm not very reliable these days. I'll try to work on this again, but I'm like, loaded with stuff to do (despite having spent way too much time on Puyo Nexus I actually spend more of my time tackling projects that I was given via IM and school, so I might as well try doing SMW again.)

edit: hmm.. can't get the SVN to work tonight, oh well.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Tanuki on April 05, 2009, 07:58:22 AM
Quote from: "nmn"
edit: hmm.. can't get the SVN to work tonight, oh well.

viewtopic.php?p=181943#p181943 (http://forum.72dpiarmy.com/viewtopic.php?p=181943#p181943)


also, nice to see you again
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Mint Eri on April 07, 2009, 09:19:13 AM
Something been bothering me for a while...

If the netplay plan is possible, the location would be a bother.  It would appear that just about players from all over the world would play SMW and if a server would be just in one location, it would most likely cause a ping problem.  I could already imagin that it would cost so much money to set up another server elsewere all over the world and maintaing them.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Open on April 07, 2009, 04:00:10 PM
Note that some of these may have already been mentioned.
Just wondering if it could be possible for SMW netplay to have an open game. In other words,  game can start with all non-player slots are filled with AI. While a game is in session, people can join removing an AI player. Of this would only work if games are host based (a person hosts a game and people join the hosted game).
Also, wouldn't it be better to have a text section for netplay. AKA a small chat box where you can type in stuff, and recieve other things people type?
Another thing, because people have different settings, the host would have to have the option of picking the game settings (items, item stats, game type settings...etc).
A bonus, why not create a new folder in the maps folder and name it "downloaded maps". When you play on a map that you don't have, the map will be sent into the DL Maps folder. That way, you don't have to keep putting your maps in the FMC forum, or keep updating a map when you changed one thing.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MrMister on April 07, 2009, 07:48:04 PM
Solve the server issue by just doing PvP.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on April 07, 2009, 08:01:31 PM
LAN would be easier then making a connect to IP and wait for reply.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on April 08, 2009, 07:20:18 AM
It would probably have more than one method, but the general idea i have is

* A Master Server that lists all servers connecting to it
* A Server that connects to the master server and basically acts as a tunnel
* The games

So, you'd connect to a server, then search for, connect to or create a game. The game protocol would essentially be implemented at a client level - So all clients the packet send to the game ends up at the server user, and the server replies. So it's like a limited proxy of sorts.

There are other ways - the server could act as a host, but this would probably be too much of a CPU hog, not to mention difficult to implement.

Other than this, it would be pretty easy to use both this protocol AND provide LAN support, since essentially the only difference is that when you go through LAN you wouldn't need the proxy. The disadvantage is that the host could cheat, but this is a minimal disadvantage since you probably don't want to cheat in a game you made (If you did everyone could just leave.)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Twentydragon on April 08, 2009, 10:01:47 AM
There should also be a place to log in (possibly an import of the forum's login list), so that people will recognize each other when they play.

As it sounds right now, everyone will only receive player numbers or IP addresses, which would make it very hard to set up a rematch with anybody.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: nmn on April 12, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Well I'd need assistance and permission to do a forum integration, but if not, i'll just let anyone choose any nickname.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: JJames19119 on April 16, 2009, 05:10:54 PM
Quote from: "Twentydragon"
There should also be a place to log in (possibly an import of the forum's login list), so that people will recognize each other when they play.

As it sounds right now, everyone will only receive player numbers or IP addresses, which would make it very hard to set up a rematch with anybody.

Honestly, anonymous netgaming is how a large majority of netplay enabled games do things. Rematching is very trivial and something like this would be more work and too in the way to really be worth it.

Really, I think a simple connection to IP with nicknames sent upon connection (with optional /nick or /name command to change nick in middle of a game) and a simple master server to help with searching for open games would be the best way to go.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Snowshoe on May 04, 2009, 10:25:30 PM
I don't know if this has been said before but, like the "downloaded maps" suggestion, it could be like that with skins, instead of being limited to 0smw or other preloaded skins. Also, if one or both of the players deleted all the preloaded skins and just downloaded new ones to the folder or made their own, how would the server work right if it's set to work on the map in the directory? Or to save file space, the server could host the two/three/four skins until the match was over, and then when the next game starts, rinse wash repeat. This could all be in the settings too, if possible.   >:|
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Kabukiguy on May 04, 2009, 11:13:31 PM
I think that they should have a small amount of preloaded skins and maps within it at first, but later on add a "Featured Skin" or "Featured Map" of the week to be put in permanently.

To decide those, judges look around the forums, for some good quality skins, and then put a poll, the poll would be featured everywhere that the netplay game is related to, and that will allow users to vote for their favorite content. Content that displayed large amounts of votes, but didn't win, will still be on the poll, content that did very poorly, will be taken out of the running to put in another one.

This way we can still make it easier and more accessible, while still letting people enjoy more skins and maps.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Zadrave on May 04, 2009, 11:52:24 PM
Quote from: "GDKN"
I think that they should have a small amount of preloaded skins and maps within it at first, but later on add a "Featured Skin" or "Featured Map" of the week to be put in permanently.

To decide those, judges look around the forums, for some good quality skins, and then put a poll, the poll would be featured everywhere that the netplay game is related to, and that will allow users to vote for their favorite content. Content that displayed large amounts of votes, but didn't win, will still be on the poll, content that did very poorly, will be taken out of the running to put in another one.

This way we can still make it easier and more accessible, while still letting people enjoy more skins and maps.

Great idea. Speaking of maps, what if somebody hosts a game where they use a custom map, and somebody joins without it? Would it be like osu! where you get it right off in-game?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on May 07, 2009, 07:53:38 PM
I sorta disappeared too. Sorry.

nmn, I never suggested this but I code in C; Not sure what requirements you need but if you dont have the time, can write me a pseudocode, I could problably write the code you need, you revise it (Im very good with C comments) then make your personal changes. Since you seem to be with 0 time on your hands and Im pretty much free all day.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Zachary on June 06, 2009, 10:08:51 AM
i know this is a month old but I could help with some netplay, since i know C, C#, C++, Visual basic, etc. etc.
i know mostly every coding language.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on June 14, 2009, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: "Zachary"
i know this is a month old but I could help with some netplay, since i know C, C#, C++, Visual basic, etc. etc.
i know mostly every coding language.

What you can do is write up a psuedo code interface,
Something that can be just sort of "added on" when 1.8 comes out.

I'm going to try and help out a bit when I start trying C++ again
For the time being though I'm stuck on visual Basic
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on June 20, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
I cant wait for the day when ill play smw online! :Mreg:  :Msmb:
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Rockerfrick on June 20, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
Me too! But how about mod support?

 :arrow: Example, you are playing SMWar and you will netplay - your SMWar does not support the mod of other servers (meaning you don't have the GFX of their mod they are currently using). And when you have connected, the game will probably crash.

 :roll:
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: eeliottheking on June 20, 2009, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: "Rockerfrick"
Me too! But how about mod support?

 :arrow: Example, you are playing SMWar and you will netplay - your SMWar does not support the mod of other servers (meaning you don't have the GFX of their mod they are currently using). And when you have connected, the game will probably crash.

 :roll:

im pretty sure the GFX are independent of the actual tiles, and im sure that the programmers will come up with some sort of solution for sending missing mods.  :p
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: ShadeKirby on June 21, 2009, 03:08:12 AM
I can live without Netplay, but I wonder if it would be possible to introduce LAN play eventually...
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on June 21, 2009, 06:21:11 AM
Quote from: "Rockerfrick"
Me too! But how about mod support?

 :arrow: Example, you are playing SMWar and you will netplay - your SMWar does not support the mod of other servers (meaning you don't have the GFX of their mod they are currently using). And when you have connected, the game will probably crash.

 :roll:
yep. and im worried about skins. if ill use a skin that the other player doesn't got,the game will crash?
EDIT:something tells me that there WILL be netplay...
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MasterKade123 on June 29, 2009, 01:26:27 AM
Actually, I have something to distribute too.

There is this fangame called Sonic Robo Blast 2 (Yes, it's not Mario, I know >_>) That uses internet LAN for Netplay. I can't tell if it's free or not, but Most servers will occasionally Show up and work, Like that as of an actual Game (such as  PS3 games, XBox360, etc. etc.). Not to mention that When you start up the server of that player's they make a folder into your computer, containing the addons needed for that server. Maybe for SMW, you can change the options so that you link a folder(s) to download the content to when playing on netplay!  :)

You can visit Srb2's Site here. (http://http://www.srb2.org)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on June 29, 2009, 01:41:10 AM
Yeah we know about srb2, but anyways, that's a cool idea about getting downloadable content from servers, but we have to take it one step at a time and get a basic netplay before having all these extravagant options and features.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: james77358 on July 05, 2009, 12:11:05 PM
Netplay is pretty good idea. I even got a pretty good idea: Ranking.
The ranking system can be pretty similar to mario kart wii: everyone will start off with 500 points, and depending on win/loss stats and skills of you and the other players, it can increase or decrease to rank you. Heck, we can even include in belts.

so what do you think?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Roxas on July 05, 2009, 03:38:41 PM
This is just me personally, I hate ranking systems, too much pressure it kind of makes games too competitive.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Twentydragon on July 05, 2009, 08:10:26 PM
Ranking would require logins, and I thought we already agreed that was a long way off.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Rockerfrick on July 06, 2009, 04:38:51 AM
Quote from: "james77358"
Netplay is pretty good idea. I even got a pretty good idea: Ranking.
The ranking system can be pretty similar to mario kart wii: everyone will start off with 500 points, and depending on win/loss stats and skills of you and the other players, it can increase or decrease to rank you. Heck, we can even include in belts.

so what do you think?

IMO, no. I just like the idea of simple netplay - Me, you, them. I agree with Roxas.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on July 09, 2009, 10:02:45 AM
I wanna make netplay making easier... it is 0.1% if it would help I dunno...... This is NOT made by me..GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf - 233.7 Kb (http://http://www.turboupload.com/6bsyu3y6yojf/GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf.html)
Hope this helps! (I don't think so...)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: eeliottheking on July 09, 2009, 05:23:40 PM
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
I wanna make netplay making easier... it is 0.1% if it would help I dunno...... This is NOT made by me..GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf - 233.7 Kb (http://http://www.turboupload.com/6bsyu3y6yojf/GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf.html)
Hope this helps! (I don't think so...)

seeing as the game is not made with game maker I don't think it will. :p
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on July 10, 2009, 04:50:10 AM
Quote from: "eeliottheking"
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
I wanna make netplay making easier... it is 0.1% if it would help I dunno...... This is NOT made by me..GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf - 233.7 Kb (http://http://www.turboupload.com/6bsyu3y6yojf/GM_Tutorial_-_Muliplayer.pdf.html)
Hope this helps! (I don't think so...)

seeing as the game is not made with game maker I don't think it will. :p
yay!!! I'm good at seeing the future! :mrgreen:  muhaahaha!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: formula1 on August 03, 2009, 02:25:03 PM
who wants to try this with me? (http://http://www.beej.us/guide/bgnet/)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on August 03, 2009, 02:29:41 PM
I havent been here (again) in a while but glad my topic is (it seems) helping.

Best of luck to those working on this :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: JTE on August 19, 2009, 07:27:35 PM
Erm... It would be much better to deny people who try to connect while using the wrong mod rather than trying to send it to them ... (Something simple like custom character skins would be okay to send, though. In fact, you can even stream the skin over to them while playing, and have it just show up as some default skin at first.)

You see, SRB2 lacks a "mod name" in its login packet due to being Doom-based, as Doom was never designed for actual programming modifications, so everyone ends up having to come up with crazy version numbers to make those not match instead. Not pretty.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on September 15, 2009, 01:17:38 AM
Quote from: "JTE"
Erm... It would be much better to deny people who try to connect while using the wrong mod rather than trying to send it to them ... (Something simple like custom character skins would be okay to send, though. In fact, you can even stream the skin over to them while playing, and have it just show up as some default skin at first.)

You see, SRB2 lacks a "mod name" in its login packet due to being Doom-based, as Doom was never designed for actual programming modifications, so everyone ends up having to come up with crazy version numbers to make those not match instead. Not pretty.
For now, forget about rankings, mods, etc.

The first system should just include basic Classic mode netplay: 2 human players only. From there we can work towards total netplay.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on February 26, 2010, 09:11:10 AM
Guys, we could just use TeamViewer to play online!  :P
I KNOW you will post something like this: ,,TeamViewer is used for viewing other's computer, not?" The answer for these guys is: ,,No." It works like two people would be using the same computer!  :lol:
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: JM Dragon on February 26, 2010, 10:26:16 AM
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Guys, we could just use TeamViewer to play online!  :P
I KNOW you will post something like this: ,,TeamViewer is used for viewing other's computer, not?" The answer for these guys is: ,,No." It works like two people would be using the same computer!  :lol:
...
But that will give other people complete access to your computer at anytime they wish. I don't like the idea of that.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on February 26, 2010, 10:41:35 AM
Quote from: "Big JM"
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Guys, we could just use TeamViewer to play online!  :P
I KNOW you will post something like this: ,,TeamViewer is used for viewing other's computer, not?" The answer for these guys is: ,,No." It works like two people would be using the same computer!  :lol:
...
But that will give other people complete access to your computer at anytime they wish. I don't like the idea of that.
I understand you don't like my idea, but it means that you only use it with your partner you trust! For example if Weegee would play with Malleo, but they are separated in different countries, they would trust each other! :)
Also, he/she doesn't take control of your computer anytime, only when needed to play! :D
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: yoshi_the_best on February 27, 2010, 07:35:21 AM
Oh yay let's play SMWar online with TeamViewer while coping with 1 second lag and bad framerate
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on February 27, 2010, 11:02:36 AM
Quote from: "yoshi_the_best"
Oh yay let's play SMWar online with TeamViewer while coping with 1 second lag and bad framerate
What do you mean by ,,1 second lag"? Also, like the idea? Not the best idea ever, but at least a chance... :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Zadrave on February 27, 2010, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Also, he/she doesn't take control of your computer anytime, only when needed to play! :D
Watch as people bypass that and hack someone else's computer.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on March 04, 2010, 08:09:33 AM
Quote from: "Zadrave"
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Also, he/she doesn't take control of your computer anytime, only when needed to play! :D
Watch as people bypass that and hack someone else's computer.
*sigh* If everyone disagrees than just wait for netplay... :(
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Zadrave on March 04, 2010, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Quote from: "Zadrave"
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Also, he/she doesn't take control of your computer anytime, only when needed to play! :D
Watch as people bypass that and hack someone else's computer.
*sigh* If everyone disagrees than just wait for netplay... :(
Well, I like the idea, I'm just saying that it'd be easy to bypass, plus it seems kind of like a hard thing to code.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: mamaluigi on March 04, 2010, 02:54:12 PM
Quote from: "Zadrave"
Well, I like the idea, I'm just saying that it'd be easy to bypass, plus it seems kind of like a hard thing to code.
Sorry, didn't notice that!  :lol:
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: SSBfreak on May 10, 2010, 10:15:18 AM
just entered the forum.
there are 3 possible ways to get netplay for this game...

1. make a dedicated hamachi server for the game
2. integrate a kaillera-client into the game
3. integrate a new server system with a netplay GUI.

the third one is the hardest thing to code, i guess....so what's about kaillera?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: yoshi_the_best on May 16, 2010, 06:35:15 AM
Since there was this Netplay topic again, I just got some ideas - some techniques that could be used.

1) Position Sending
The clients will send their position every X frames to the server who sends it to everyone else then.
+ Easy to code
- Players jumping around
- High bandwidth needed

2) Forward Prediction
Also used in Mario Kart Wii. Basically it is like 1), but the client also sends their current speed, direction etc. The server sends those to the clients who apply those to a "dummy player" who is affected by gravity and all this jazz. This allows for a lower rate of sending.
+ Not so jumpy
+ The client can compute the movements and all that stuff
- It looks pretty odd if one of the Clients disconnects while running - he will run all the time, into walls or in pits

3) Controls only
The clients do not send a packet every X frames, but everytime a key is pressed it gets transfered to the server. The server calculates the positions and sends them to the clients. So in this case, the clients are basically only used for displaying the data and getting input.
+ No cheating possible
- Again high bandwidth needed

4) Mix out of 2) and 3)
Each client sends a packet when they get input and the server sends every 5 frames or something the current position, speed and item to the clients.
+ No cheating possible
+ smooth movement
- It looks pretty odd if one of the Clients disconnects while running blabla

So, yeah, I guess 4 is the best solution. Now it would need just a quick and secure way to etablish a connection beetween server and client, a kind of lobby or something and to cope with problems like DCing and stuff.

[/giving suggestions for a thing that will most likely never happen]
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Rockerfrick on May 17, 2010, 01:59:28 AM
Yeah, 4's the best. It's not a nuisance whether one client disconnects, say, that player will become a bot or it will lose control and disappear from the map? But his points are still retained at the rest of the match, until another match is started which there will be some modifications of the former match which these are the possible outcomes:
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 20, 2010, 11:11:24 AM
Quote from: "mamaluigi"
Guys, we could just use TeamViewer to play online!  :P
I KNOW you will post something like this: ,,TeamViewer is used for viewing other's computer, not?" The answer for these guys is: ,,No." It works like two people would be using the same computer!  :lol:
....you have no idea how TeamViewer works or what its for do you?

yoshi_the_best - Like your ideas. We could sacrify a bit of lag for a packet which tells us that the user is still there. If the packet is never sent/recieved, the command (jump/run/etc) is never executed and after x time, the player is booted and disappears.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: riahc3 on July 20, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
Im actually scared to go find nmn again. He might think Im a annoying prick lol.....

Its too bad his code disappeared. If it hadnt, Im sure others would have provided some kind of help/input to help nmn out.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: neagix on April 24, 2013, 01:28:46 PM
3 years old thread...sorry for bumping this up (so abruptly :P)

I am going to work on this, LAN netplay support.

I've read the topic (and several others) and, sorry to say, there is very little technical people here...but I think this can improve :)

So right now there is no source for any netplay implementation, right?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: MC Jimmy on April 28, 2013, 04:59:07 PM
The only version that has a working netplay mode is the java version made by Big JM and Eon8ight.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: neagix on April 29, 2013, 02:07:53 AM
The only version that has a working netplay mode is the java version made by Big JM and Eon8ight.

I am working on the C++ version and will add netplay there, although I have no release date yet
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on January 18, 2014, 07:52:00 AM
It seems nobody is currently working on SMW, so I started developing too.
And today, I present you the first trailer of the multiplayer mode:
http://youtu.be/epxInS7ZAL8

neagix, I couldn't find your email so I'm asking here: are you planning to continue smw-next?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: AndyGround on April 27, 2014, 10:21:18 AM
It seems nobody is currently working on SMW, so I started developing too.
And today, I present you the first trailer of the multiplayer mode:
http://youtu.be/epxInS7ZAL8

neagix, I couldn't find your email so I'm asking here: are you planning to continue smw-next?


Awesome!! Love seeing that this game still gets some development love from the fans.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on April 29, 2014, 10:04:06 AM
Can't believe I didn't see this -_-
Good work :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on May 09, 2014, 03:30:24 PM
So, the netplay code is nearly done, I think it will be ready in this summer.
It takes some time because of real life issues (exams, hospital, etc.), but it will be finished. :)

Meanwhile, I'm also working on a Javascript port, meaning SMW will run in your browser.


salkriaf34, nem is gondoltam volna, hogy pont itt találok magyarokat :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on May 09, 2014, 04:31:28 PM
Should make sure FPS doesn't affect gameplay anymore (it speeds up the entire game and not just the rendering)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 23, 2014, 10:43:36 AM
It's been a while since I last posted, so here's the current status:

First of all, I still actively work on netplay, don't worry :) Again, I had some non-game related issues that slowed down the development, but I managed to complete some nice features.

The network interface greatly improved, it is now possible to support online, offline (LAN), and even direct connections without running any external server program locally. The players can also detect disconnections (like when the game host quits), and will be able to continue the game without problems.

Currently player to player collisions work fine, so it is already possible to play. I'm still thinking about how to properly handle the objects over the network, so that the same thing would happen for all players. Breakable blocks, powerups and moving objects all should be in sync, and if you've seen the source code, you can see why it's a hard task.
When these are done then I can continue working on anti-lag methods for online play (LAN works nice already).

Meanwhile, I also tried some other stuff, I ported the level editor to HTML, and also worked on a skin/map hosting site too. More details soon :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on August 30, 2014, 05:58:21 AM
Perhaps when players connect to a host the server could seed each client's RNG so the results are in sync.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 30, 2014, 06:01:48 PM
Yes, that's what I use currently too, but it has some problems. It works when the players get the input of others in every frame, but as soon you start sending other data (position, velocity, ...), or try to optimize (eg. send a package in every 3rd frame only), it gets out of sync because of the lag.
Some randoms get called in every frame (like wind timer update), maybe it will work if they are disabled or calculated before the gameplay.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on December 01, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
I barely had any time in the past few months, but the development should speed up now in the holiday season.
Here's the current status of the stuff I'm working on:
- Netplay: about 80% done
- SMW and the Level editor runs in browser, some tweaking needed
- content hosting site is in prototype/alpha state
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Pikachu24Fan on December 18, 2014, 10:43:43 PM
Wow nice job on all the stuff your working on so far, glad to see this awesome game is still getting worked on. Btw was wondering if we might be able to try out netplay soon? Keep up the great work  ;D
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on December 25, 2014, 11:07:44 AM
I hope I can finish it before the forum goes down from the spamming... as soon as the game is in a good shape I will release it for testing. I'm working on an alternative site too, just in case.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Fortis on January 07, 2015, 12:16:15 PM
SMW works in the browser? Does that mean I won't have to download .dll files from other sites to play it on my new computer?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on January 08, 2015, 01:30:58 PM
Exactly! It also means SMW might run fine on your tablet/game console/smart toaster too.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Fortis on January 08, 2015, 07:08:15 PM
That right there is probably one of the biggest barriers to new fans coming in and looking for a game. Looking forward to playing around with the level editor to make some new stages for the game. The alternative site is probably a good idea too.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on January 31, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
Every semester I hope I will have more time to work on this, but that usually doesn't work out. So I will open the code in 1-2 weeks, in case someone's interested in forking/enhancing/etc SMW. This does NOT mean I will stop working on this, of course :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on February 06, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
That right there is probably one of the biggest barriers to new fans coming in and looking for a game.

Alternatively we could package the game correctly with all dependencies.
Harder but possible is to have someone recompile the game while linking the C/C++ libraries statically as opposed to dynamically (eliminates need for .dll in first place)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: GaM3r2Xtreme on March 03, 2015, 12:15:18 PM
Felix, how do you propose we fix the linking issue with the libraries? I have tried just to compile the 1.8 beta 2 version on visual studio with no luck. Having issues with the SDL_mixer.h file missing, which the compiler happily notifies this through the use of 50 error messages.

Great work on the Netplay, fluffy. If you happen to need any help, I would gladly try to assist. You seem to know your coding inside and out from working on this as well as the new site.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on March 03, 2015, 06:02:45 PM
I haven't tried compiling SMW in a long time.
You can get SDL_mixer here. (http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/)

I don't know if anyone active has FTP/upload access for the main site, so I don't know where it'd be hosted when it's correctly packaged, but we can either simply include all the dependencies in the download or we can compile with the flags to link them statically (-static-libgcc -static-libstdc++ for me)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Fortis on March 03, 2015, 06:22:09 PM
Just a thought. Maybe the game itself could be uploaded to that new SMWstuff site that fluffypillow made? A sort of one stop shop for all your Super Mario War needs.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 03, 2015, 07:55:16 PM
Sure, I'll make a nice page for it then. I can also create a statically linked build for Windows, and fresh packages for some Linux distros, just need to fix some path bugs in my source before.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: GaM3r2Xtreme on March 04, 2015, 12:53:28 PM
I haven't tried compiling SMW in a long time.
You can get SDL_mixer here. (http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/)

That is the site I ended up downloading the SDL_mixer from, but Visual Studio continues to throw errors even after the SDL_mixer.h file is found. Another SDL related library is missing, so I am assuming that the compiler can not locate any of the SDL related code. I think the best option is to wait until fluffy uploads the latest changes he has made.

Quote
I don't know if anyone active has FTP/upload access for the main site, ...

The main site as in http://smw.supersanctuary.net/site/ (http://smw.supersanctuary.net/site/) correct? If I remember correctly, JM Dragon or JJames19119 may have access to this site. They haven't been active for while from the looks of their profile page.

Just a thought. Maybe the game itself could be uploaded to that new SMWstuff site that fluffypillow made? A sort of one stop shop for all your Super Mario War needs.

I agree with this. Most of the work might already be done as in the description of the game and what not on the main site. The page would only need a face lift to match the theme of the new site instead. Some screenshots would be nice to include as well.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 04, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
I'm not using Visual Studio, so I'm not sure if my changes will help you. But this looks like a simple problem, you just have to tell VS where did you put the SDL files. If I remember correctly, it's in the Project Properties; set SDL's "include" dir at C/C++ -> Additional include path, and SDL's "lib" dir at Linker -> Additional somethingpath, then add the libSDL* files for the Linker somewhere there too. If you still have problems, there are tutorials for setting up SDL in VS on the net too.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 08, 2015, 01:02:48 PM
Ok, the code is now online at github (https://github.com/mmatyas/supermariowar). I didn't uploaded the server yet, I'd like to integrate it to SMW's build system first.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: GaM3r2Xtreme on March 08, 2015, 07:35:54 PM
I think I will try and compile the code and see how it runs. Do you have the server running as a separate application? The source code that was uploaded is the new client side application correct? Almost like a 1.8 "beta 3" kind of deal. BTW, if you need a tester for the server, I would be more than happy to lend a hand.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 10, 2015, 08:37:32 PM
The netplay has 3 parts: the client, the game host and the lobby server. Every game session requires a host and multiple clients. You will be able to direct connect to a game, or use a server in between. You can use this lobby server to manage rooms, exchange maps, skins, etc., but it's optional. I've uploaded the client and the host, it works (I've played online), but not yet complete and not optimized. I'd like to refactor some parts of the game first however, as there are some issues which might cause problems later on.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: lele on May 31, 2015, 01:48:08 PM
Hi guys! I love SMW and I think an online option will be an very good idea. I've think of this for a long time and I've download le source code, but I can't compile with VS 2013 because it says file not found with all the files (.cpp or .h). Any solutions? (I'm an C++ programmer but I'm not an expert lol, I'm better with web development)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on June 01, 2015, 09:49:25 AM
Are you using the original SMW sources? Then this might help: http://72dpiarmy.supersanctuary.net/index.php?topic=7017.0
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: lele on June 04, 2015, 05:15:31 PM
I us the source code from github, the link in your post. I've test with master and netplay, both have same errors with the files not found... I've look for SDL or if I can open it with KDevelop on linux.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on June 26, 2015, 11:43:03 PM
Will Multiplayer Online ever come out? i rly liked this game,but with no multiplayer online i cant play with my "Skype" Friends.
i enter in this forum everyday to check when the multiplayer will come out ;-;
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on June 28, 2015, 03:33:46 PM
Don't worry, I'm actively working on SMW, it will come out eventually (I'd rather not say any release dates as I'm bad at keeping them).

lele, have you managed to build SMW?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: BrunoMatrix1997 on July 05, 2015, 10:25:44 PM
Very cool, fluffypillow is a great guy to have decided to create an online mode in Super Mario War :)
  But while not enough, I can enjoy a good time in my space, in Pouetpu-games!

  My Account: http://www.pouetpu-games.com/index.php?section=6&id=70564

You could visit my profile, if you are not doing anything ....
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on July 27, 2015, 08:51:51 PM
When you finish the Netplay,you will create a new post right? if yes,pls reply the Link of the post
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on July 28, 2015, 02:57:03 PM
Of course! Netplay is coming along quite well, I'm already playtesting some features.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on July 29, 2015, 08:37:35 PM
Great  ;D! I need to play online xD
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: herb fargus on July 30, 2015, 03:10:02 AM
I was just introduced to SMW and it is hands down my new favourite game. Its like the super smash bros of the super Nintendo. Fluffypillow- my hat is off to you for your recent developments on the game.

I'm quite actively involved with the RetroPie project (for Raspberry Pi's) and I would love to include your updated version with netplay as part of the project once its somewhat stable. I'm not the most gifted at coding but I'm more than happy to test it on the RPI and offer any other assistance I'm capable of lending.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 12, 2015, 05:16:20 PM
So, the core gameplay works already (but still has bugs), so I was thinking about an open alpha testing. Since it's far from complete, I would like to ask only developers and brave souls to try it (seriously).

The main goals are:
- test that the game works on various platforms (herf fargus, could you try it on Raspberries?)
- test if there's significant lag
- test if there are game-crashing bugs
- test if it's more fun than poking a monkey with a stick

I'd prefer:
- people running Linux (easier to debug problems), but Windows is fine too
- video recordings of the gameplay, the best would be to see all player's screen
- on crashes, detailed description (or a core dump) on what happened

Right now,
- the game is playable (yes, really!)
- sometimes stuff become out of sync
- the multiplayer menu is incomplete and full of placeholders, but can launch a simple game

If you're interested, I'm usually available on IRC (#supermariowar on freenode, in case you've forget), mostly afternoon (GMT+2).
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on August 13, 2015, 03:07:14 PM
im a Brave Soul xD i rlly want to help and test it,seriosly,i ill' be very happy to Test it >:D
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 13, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
Ah we've just missed each other on IRC, come back please :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Ronoh55 on August 14, 2015, 01:02:11 AM
Herb Fargus just messaged me at the Retropie forum alerting me to your alpha testing. So excited, even more than after getting the original working properly on the raspberry pi!

I'm definitely in for helping with testing on the pi! Just let me know what/where I gotta go to get started getting it running.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 14, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
Just visit the IRC channel (https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#supermariowar), and I'll help setting it up :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on August 26, 2015, 03:47:43 PM
Any Progress??
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 26, 2015, 05:24:30 PM
Here's what happened in the past two weeks:

- 4 player multiplayer works
- netplay is cross-platform and works behind routers
- map sharing added
- all game modes work
- fixed bugs and crashes
- reduced memory usage and improved performance
- many minor tweaks, etc.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on August 27, 2015, 02:23:12 PM
post the progress every Week/Month if you can
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Elevory on September 19, 2015, 09:30:18 AM
Looking forward to the open alpha.  :)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Ronoh55 on September 19, 2015, 01:53:47 PM
You are more than welcome to join in Elevory. Progress has been slowing due to school demands on fluffypillow, but most of the big bugs have already been worked out.

http://smwstuff.net/alpha

https://github.com/mmatyas/supermariowar
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on September 19, 2015, 06:16:30 PM
In the past month there were mostly under-the-hood and minor changes, due to the shock caused by the new semester. The beta is not that far off now, netplay itself mostly works and many features already done too. If you'd like to help, you can usually find someone on the IRC channel for setting it up or to play against.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: GaM3r2Xtreme on October 06, 2015, 10:45:42 PM
Excellent work fluffy! I haven't had too much time to really dig into SMW as I use to, but hopefully I can give a small hand and test out the alpha build. Might even be able to get a group of friends to join me too.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on November 10, 2015, 05:17:53 PM
Development slowed down a bit due to lack of time, but hopefully I can work more on SMW in the winter season. Here's what happened in the past month:

- Skin sharing added: now you can use your favourite skins in online games. This is the last netplay feature I wanted to finish before the first Beta, which means now only bug fixes, optimalizations and general usability improvements are left.
- Working on Android port: not yet done, but on the way (there's one for 1.8, but 2.0 works somewhat differently)
- Graphic improvements: I've received an improved SMW logo and "v2.0" image from Rookervik, thanks!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on January 27, 2016, 03:33:21 PM
Hey there, I'm still alive. In the past months, I was doing exams, so there weren't big changes in Nov-Dec. However, I had some time in January, here's what happened:

- Major optimizations in the netplay code, reduced network traffic by ~60%, fixed "jumpiness"
- SMW runs correctly on Android (there's no virtual gamepad yet, but "works" with connected keyboard)
- SMW should work on OSX (I couldn't find anyone with a Mac to test yet...)
- Fixed some weird bugs

Unfortunately, my testers have disappeared, so if someone would like to try the very latest alpha version, you can find me on the IRC channel (https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=supermariowar).

Here's what's left:

- Fix powerups and items (sometimes they don't fire for all players)
- Fix sync issues (sometimes players don't die when they are killed)
- Some menu improvements
- Test!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: 0xNear on February 05, 2016, 06:25:58 AM
Ok, I am on IRC, I have little collection of devices so I can test on these:
Rapsberry Pi 2, few x86/x64 devices (Windows and Linux, maybe other systems but at VirtualBox, not native), PS Vita (through Rejuvenate hack), few Android devices, and - these are really old - PSP, PS2.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: kodaxx on February 18, 2016, 02:10:22 PM
I would also like to test the alpha, and have numerous devices to test with. I attempted visiting irc, but did not reach anyone so I'll post here instead. If this is still active, please let me know!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Ronoh55 on February 18, 2016, 02:56:59 PM
It's still active, I'm generally on the irc between noon and 3pm EST. Just send a message out so we know you are there, I don't have my eyes glued to the smw irc as there's usually only a couple people there.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: kodaxx on February 19, 2016, 05:30:39 AM
Sounds good. I've been a smw fan for a long time, but I haven't been to the forum in ages lol
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: AK712 on March 15, 2016, 11:23:45 PM
I'm trying to download this following the instructions and it's giving errors... Since I'm Windows 8.1 x64, shouldn't I download the x64 smw.exe instead of the x86? If I do either of them they both give "Could not open the application (x00000something)" error.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 16, 2016, 08:01:54 AM
I've changed some DLLs yesterday, and haven't updated the guide yet, sorry :)
x86 runs on x64 fine (but not the other way), so it doesn't really matter in this case.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on March 19, 2016, 04:17:37 PM
I've updated the alpha guide, but I haven't tested it on Win8/10 yet. If you get weird errors (like 0x436435), you might have more luck building it yourself.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on April 09, 2016, 03:28:06 PM
It's been a while, here is some progress update:

- tested the game (offlene) on OSX, works fine
- fixed joining and connection issues in netplay alpha
- netplay server list can now be managed in game
- fixed input settings loading bug
- skins are now changeable before starting a netplay game
- huge performance improvements on ARM embedded systems using hardware acceleration
- fixed invisible map tiles in hardware accelerated mode
- improved the build guides
- fixed the JS port, SMW now runs in browsers (see smwstuff.net (http://smwstuff.net/))

I'm still doing this in my free time, so unfortunately the development is kinda slow. If you don't mind the horrible experience an alpha version may give, and you can building softwares from source, you can help with the alpha testing, see the details here (http://smwstuff.net/alpha), and if you find bugs, report them here (https://github.com/mmatyas/supermariowar/issues).
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: GaM3r2Xtreme on April 15, 2016, 12:44:16 PM
Its great to see your still working on this fluffy. Keep up the great work mate!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: dingding22 on April 21, 2016, 10:54:26 PM
Someone can help me to build the thing for play at super mario war online

Sorry for the error im french xD
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on April 22, 2016, 01:01:05 PM
Sure, do you have a specific build problem? Or you have some troubles setting up a development environment? You can also find building instructions in the README and here (https://github.com/mmatyas/supermariowar/wiki) too.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on April 22, 2016, 01:13:38 PM
By the way, the current status:

- game mode settings are now changeable and are shared correctly in netplay
- there's a (currently somewhat ugly) notification when a player disconnects
- stored powerups (eg. bullet bills) now work correctly
- remote player characters now move more smoothly

With these the netplay is almost complete, there are just 2 major bugs before the beta.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on April 24, 2016, 04:36:25 PM
One bug left!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on May 03, 2016, 03:53:45 PM
I'm doing final exams at my university, next update in mid-June.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on May 28, 2016, 01:00:00 AM
One bug left!

 8)
Maybe I should check in more often. The "unread posts" button is the only thing that makes this site less overwhelming when I return after a hiatus.
I've been busy with my full-tme job and developing my own game  :-X

If anyone needs me feel free to email me (probably the most reliable way I will reply)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on July 03, 2016, 03:59:46 PM
I'm back! The current state is that in theory, the networking is done. In practice, however (I've tried it in LAN), there still seem to be some issues, mainly desyncing (eg. different things come out of [?] blocks) and sometimes lagginess (mostly visually).
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: SMWFan on July 07, 2016, 11:12:26 AM
If/when this is released, will it no longer require outdated .dlls from Windows XP?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on July 12, 2016, 03:52:49 PM
Sorry I've just noticed your post (looks like the email alert doesn't work, again).

That's right, you won't need the DLLs any more; and actually the 1.8 releases from smwstuff.net don't need it either.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Coghner on August 07, 2016, 12:25:50 PM
how its going? its the Multiplayer working good?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on August 10, 2016, 09:42:54 AM
During the playtests I've noticed some desyncing issues that need additional work; it takes some time as I have to get and set up some hardware (eg. a Raspbery Pi) to test the game on a real network.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on September 28, 2016, 03:39:34 PM
fluffypillow, how is progress? Is there a thread yet specifically for your build? Do you take requests?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 11, 2016, 01:48:40 PM
Sorry for the late reply, I just noticed your post! Unfortunately, there wasn't much progress, because of both real life and technical issues and, well, I guess I'm a bit burned out after all this time :/

The netplay works, at least somewhat: a few people have tested it, some have reported that it works well, but personally I'm still not pleased with it. I have tried various methods to reduce the lag, but in practice its still noticeable. Then there's another problem, that the game tends to desync on network issues (eg. data packet loss). This could be fixed by making sure every packet gets received properly, but this feature would also increase the lag. Both of these problems occur because the game source code was not designed for networking, so if even one variable gets a wrong value, it can have effects on completely unrelated parts of the gameplay code (kind of butterfly effect).

Anyway, I'll upload the latest version tonight, so you could try it out. I'd be happy to hear what do you guys think.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 11, 2016, 03:42:54 PM
Here are the latest versions:


For other platforms (ARM, OSX, ...), you can find the source code here (https://github.com/mmatyas/supermariowar).
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 11, 2016, 04:35:56 PM
So here's how the netplay works. I'll try to write it as detailed as possible, but feel free to ask if something isn't clear. It probably makes more sense if you've ever played Worms or something.

First, there's a central matchmaking server, called smw-server. People can join to this server, and create rooms, or join existing rooms. A room is where people gather before the game starts. There can be multiple rooms on the Server, and when you play with your friends, only one Server is needed, there's no need to everyone run one.

Here's the important technical detail: if the Server program runs on a computer that is behind a router, and you want to allow players from the internet to join ( = you are not playing in LAN), then you MUST set up port forwarding. "Port forwarding" is a fancy name for telling the router that it should allow connecting players on a certain network port, and that the players can find the game server on a certain local computer. Without setting this up, the players CANNOT connect, because routers don't allow incoming connections for security reasons. The method differs between routers, but you can find more details here (https://portforward.com/router.htm). The Server requires forwarding the UDP 12521 port to the computer where the Server runs. The IP address of the Server is the external internet address of the router (not 192.168.xxx.xxx, but more like 54.32.10.xx), this is what the other players have to enter to join.

If you play on a local network (that is, every player is on the same network), then you don't have to set up the router. The IP address of the server is just the address of the computer.

After you set the Server up, the rest should be straightforward. You start the game, enter the Multiplayer menu, set your player name at the top, then go to Add/Remove Servers, press Add, type in the IP address of the SERVER, Ok, Back, then choose the Server on the Selected server list and Connect. You'll get the list of rooms when you connect or when you press Refresh.

Well I guess that's all for now, have fun and enjoy the bugs!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 11, 2016, 04:38:15 PM
PS. If you find a bug you can reproduce, please create a video of it! Even a phone recording is fine, but it helps me very much if I can actually see the problem.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on October 13, 2016, 11:12:18 PM
It works with LAN? Nice.

For your concerns with lag, usually what is done is packet enforcing with key events, like if the player gets a power up/collides with another player you absolutely want that packet received, but you are more lenient with general player movements/particles/etc.

I don't know that I can test unless we manage to get a group of people to schedule an event. A separate thread might help facilitate that. I have a garbage AT&T connection so I don't know if I'd be able to test well though.

One thing I've noticed with even AAA console games though is that they don't always gracefully acknowledge a lost connection, but actually crash/freeze. I could test that (lol) I assume your version has threading to ensure the game doesn't freeze up when the networking parts are still waiting for a non-existent connection.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 14, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
Yes, SMW works similarly. Important events are always being sent in-order, reliable, and can properly reproduce an event. Movement can be calculated locally, and only needs corrections from the server, in a way that when it turns out that there was a problem with a player's position, the game can correct it, and replay the input that happened since that moment of time seamlessly. It's kind of complex, but there are technical papers and documentations about how this works in details, it can work very well in practice, and that's how most works fast paced games (FPSes, MMOs, ...) work.

So I implemented it in SMW, and it worked well... for a few seconds, then everything blew up. Like, you start the game, don't press anything, then suddenly your character starts shaking then fly through the screen. I couldn't really find out the problem even though I did some extensive logging. In the binaries above, I turned this feature off, so its laggy, but at least playable.

The other buggy part is the syncing. Everything works fine as long as the random number generator produces the same values for all the players. That is, when you hit a [?] block, the same weapon pops out of it. Unfortunately, almost everything in the game is wired to the random generator, which means the generator runs about 1000 times a second. So if even one thing turns out a it different for a client (which can happen due to number rounding errors or tiny differences or bugs), then the player no longer produces the same values as the others, and the game breaks, and the players can end up in different positions and the boxes can contain different items. I think this bug could be fixed by some debugging and further hacking.

Well, other than these issues, the game seems to work fine, it supports all game modes, you can play any maps, using any skins. There's also proper hardware acceleration support and a prototype Android support in the source code, but these aren't stable yet.

Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on October 15, 2016, 03:15:40 AM
I know we both agreed synchronizing the PRNG among clients would be a good idea, but perhaps instead of relying completely on it we can use it for client-side prediction only, having the server enforce its own results (reseeding all clients if a conflict is detected)

I also assume you're optimizing packets sent (e.g. packing 8 Boolean values into a single byte)
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on October 16, 2016, 04:17:36 PM
Yup, the game has client side position prediction with confirmation from the server, position interpolation on difference, server reconciliation, roundtrip time corrected event handling, all the things you'd expect from a network game. The packets are compressed and tightly packed - for example, the player input is 2 bytes currently, but if it turns out that it's still a bottleneck, it could be reduced to just one with some more hacking. Another optimization would be to use half width floats, but that broke the game when I tried it; there's probably a way to improve that though.

However, it seems the issues are within the game code, not really with the network data. The gameplay issues are likely caused by a bug in the reconciliation code, which I didn't find it yet; requiring to reseed the clients every few seconds doesn't sound like a normal behaviour. It could be a minor thing, like one buggy package, but I can't really grasp it and it's driving me nuts.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: kodaxx on November 11, 2016, 02:22:55 PM
If I paid for AWS, could I host a dedicated server? So everyone could get together and play?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: fluffypillow on November 12, 2016, 12:36:35 PM
Sure, of course! On the server, you just have to start `smw-server`, open the UDP 12521 port and it should work fine.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Hudson G on January 13, 2017, 08:31:15 PM
Can I play as LAN using Hamachi ? If so, how can I ? What should I configure ? What should I do EXACTLY ? I have a bunch of friends (better call a flock) to play this extremely funny game and end our friendship by stomping each other heads.
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Korbel on February 19, 2017, 12:41:47 AM
Hey, I tried the netplay with my brother and did a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lh9GlSVTrU
This is footage of it, which I randomly decided to do because it was going crazy. Though I'm sure this is how it always is.
I am aware this is highly WIP of course, but this WIP had a rare case where glitches actually made it fun too. It didn't really mess up movement all too much, though sometimes it would go insane in movement glitches if you were playing as a regular player and not the host.
Soon enough I might get to playing this with 3 other people, once I get my port forwarding working correctly as it's messed up after certain things happening a few months ago.
Anyway, thanks for making efforts to do this, man! This is pretty damn amazing and I thought I would eventually have to gain a programming ability in order to do this myself. I would probably gladly donate to you if I had such disposable money. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on February 19, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
fluffypillow should watch this, I thought he enforced messages with deaths/item pickups so they wouldn't desync.
Also can you record a fullscreen session?
Title: Re: Netplay General Discussion
Post by: Korbel on February 20, 2017, 09:25:07 PM
When I put the time into it, I will record it in fullscreen. I didn't the first time because I wanted to have eyes on the console, but now I have two displays for that.
I also felt it played better in windowed mode.